Space Engineers Feedback

95
Votes
Pistons Should Apply a logical Torque, much like how Rotors work now.
As it is now, Piston heads will move along a linear path, completely ignoring any and every oposing force applied. It would be great if they had a similar functionality akin to that of how rotors work. Factoring in things like breaking force and possibly a pushing force, this could aid greatly in creating contraption, suspensions, and lowering the possibility of certain types of clang .


Matterom shared this idea 01/08/17 17:48
Phoenix84 01/08/17 17:54
Pistons used to have a breaking force, but it was removed for some reason. I also would like to have pistons have a force limit, would would stop pistons from continuing if they encounter resistance. This would keep pistons from breaking, or worse, clanging and exploding.
Vrmithrax 17/08/17 18:10
This would be a great addition, we've been asking for something similar almost since the day pistons were introduced! A pushing torque and braking torque would be ideal, so you can set a limit for how hard a piston will push, and also for how resistant it will be to collapse or expansion when not being driven. This would be huge for mechanisms in general, and reduction in Klang.
GrindyGears 17/08/17 18:36
Well, I don't think linear actuation is typically called torque, but I get your meaning, I would be okay with this as long as they maintain the ability to have the infinite force they have now, I've mentioned this in several threads on the forums, but I do believe that actually calculating the force it's exerting may be a fairly computationally heavy thing, unlike its rotor counterpart where the amount of torque is fairly consistent, you will find with a piston that is being used say like a crane boom, will change the amount of force its under for every single slight change in the angle of which the boom, piston, and any other extension thereof, I'm not sure how heavy it would actually be, but having done static analysis of hydraulics spanning a page or two of paper, i'm sure it's not super light
Needye 17/08/17 19:51
I also think this is needed but in a way it also could work in gravity,as rotors the way are now with little mass go down, pistons should have the limit way up. And as others have pointed torque is for angular movement, so i sugest the name "Pneumatic force".
Vrmithrax 17/08/17 20:05
Agreed, it should really be "force" and not torque, that was just being held over from the rotor comparison, I think. To keep it simple, "Force" for the linear force applied to move the piston, "Resistance" for the braking force when not being pushed (or powered). Interesting point: technically, a piston with zero Force and zero Resistance would just work as a linear slide.
Timotei22 18/08/17 02:27
To my understanding, pistons does not have a MaxForce parameter because havoc does not actually support pistons. As I see them, the current pistons are actually rotors but with no rotation control and a head displacement which can vary in time. Because of that, piston may have to be redone from scratch (but I don't know how) in order to get force control. But anyway, I'm not a keen programmer so I wouldn't know and I could be wrong (hopefully).
Roxstar 31/08/17 15:51
For the sake of physics and the implantations that this would bring us... 3 votes. I agree with Needya that it should be called something as "Pneumatic force" because a psiton works with air or a fluid pressure. Maybe add an option to keep the piston on a certain pressure (so objects can tug and push the head and it will try to compensate) creating a valid suspension piston.
Vrmithrax 31/08/17 16:49
That was the reason for my suggestion of "force" and "resistance" settings. Force would be how hard the piston would work to extend, and just stall if the force needed exceeds that level. Resistance would be how hard a piston clamps down to resist movement. Current pistons are at 100% force and 100% resistance, very rigid, and that's what causes the explosive destruction around them at times. Having parameters to adjust those forces would soften up the behavior, creating some natural damping effects. And, as I mentioned, setting both force and resistance to zero would provide a linear slide mechanic that we are sorely lacking in SE since they gave up on rails.
retep998 23/09/17 15:41
How exactly are the wheel suspension blocks implemented. Can't Keen just reuse the physics code from that?
Inflex 25/09/17 18:46
Hello guys, really nice post. So lets' say, if we'd added slider(s) to control maximal force the piston can apply, would that solve your issues?
naed21 25/09/17 18:57
@Inflex I've had issues in the past where I'd mis-judge the maximum length of the piston and it ends up destroying everything in it's path. With a weak strength I can test the piston's use before increasing the strength to match the desired speed. Also I like to use piston's to extend landing gears. I'd imagine a non-infinate force being applied would allow for a shock-absorber effect when landing a bit too hard, compared to landing gear + piston being destroyed.
AlchemistArthur 25/09/17 19:04
Would it be possible to port the damping and strength settings from wheel suspensions? could they take that code and give us force(strength from suspension, damping, and speed (from suspension height)? They appear to have already worked out the physics for that implementation in engine.
TheDeinonychus 25/09/17 19:19
@ Inflex Well, firstly, it would make pistons act more like real world pneumatic and hydraulic pistons. Secondly, they would prevent pistons causing breakage where they shouldn't, if set correctly. To give an example, I had in the past worked on a 'cannibal' ship. Basically, it was a ship with a front end that opened into large jaws lined with grinders to 'eat' other ships. My original plan was to use pistons to open and close the jaws, since they were a lot stronger than rotors alone and I was having to move such large grids, the rotors were having trouble moving them. Unfortunately using pistons meant that when the ship 'bit down', it would almost always end up breaking off it's grinders, and sometimes damaging the jaws themselves. So I had to resort to using several rotors on each jaw, which had it's own problems and made the build much more complicated. The ability to fine-tune the pressure each piston exerts before stopping when it encounters enough resistance would have made the build much simpler and resulted in the build behaving more like I would expect a similar build to in real life.
duncandisorder 01/10/17 00:51
Please help support my "Furniture and Greenhouse" idea. It really is a good idea, if I say so myself. Personally, I think the game has overlooked a vital part of ship building. We have no furniture, like beds and desks or no bathroom items, like sinks, toilets and showers. Anyway, there's more to my idea, I would appreciate any votes. Thank you. https://feedback.keenswh.com/idea/furniture-and-greenhouse59c67aa110fc8
jackik 02/12/17 15:06
I think this is mostly fixed with the new physics system.